Friday, July 3, 2015

Egyptian God Card Rulings

So, the Gods aren’t as popular as I predicted them to be, but they have seen a bit more play (on Dueling Network at least). It amazes me how many people don’t know the basic God card rulings. Beginners and experienced players alike, consistently get them wrong, so I’m going to try and clear them up.

Universal Rulings (applies to Slifer, Obelisk and Ra)

-          “This card’s Normal Summon cannot be negated”. This is pretty straight forward and it’s usually beginners who get this wrong, and if you are a beginner and you get a God card used against you I feel sorry for you, because you will have no idea what to do against it. Most decks still run Solemn Warning. It is a pretty good card but it won’t negate the Normal Summon of Obelisk, Slifer or Ra because their Normal Summons cannot be negated. It will however negate their Special Summon if they are summoned from the Graveyard (or Deck or Banished pile).
-          “When Normal Summoned, cards and effects cannot be activated”. This is a common mistake made by players and is actually a misprint on the cards themselves. It is an understandable mistake to make though. You read that and you think “This is awesome. Summon this boss monster and I lock down my opponent”. Sorry, that’s not how it works. What the sentence should say is this: When Normal Summoned, cards and effects cannot be activated in response to the summon. That makes it a lot clearer on what it actually means. It means that if I summon Slifer, Obelisk or Ra, my opponent can’t activate a Torrential Tribute or a Bottomless Trap Hole or any card or effect that would normally activate when a monster is summoned. There is kind of an exception to this though. If I summon Slifer the Sky Dragon while my opponent also controls a Slifer the Sky Dragon, my Slifer will lose 2000 ATK. This is because Slifer’s effect activates upon each successful summon. Since the Normal Summon of my Slifer the Sky Dragon cannot be negated and my opponent cannot activate cards or effects in response, Slifer is successfully summoned and therefore my opponent’s Slifer the Sky Dragon will have its effect activated. Once the God has been successfully summoned, cards and effects can be activated normally.
-          “During the End Phase, if this card was Special Summoned, send it to the Graveyard”. So this really only applies to Obelisk and Slifer because Ra can’t be Special Summoned from the Graveyard. It’s amazing how many players get this wrong and it’s usually because they have Mound of the Bound Creator active at the time and they think that stops the monster from being destroyed. It doesn’t. This is because the God isn’t destroyed, it is simply sent to the Graveyard. Players think that being sent to the Graveyard is the same as being destroyed. It isn’t the same, they are two different functions. Think of it this way. Normal spells and traps are sent to the Graveyard once their effects resolve, but they are not considered to have been destroyed. You can, however, protect the Gods from this effect. You can Special Summon Obelisk by the effect of The Shallow Grave (which will set it on the field) and you can use Book of Moon on Slifer after you Special Summon it. In both cases, Obelisk and Slifer will avoid being sent to the Graveyard during the End Phase, even if they are flipped face up or Flip Summoned on a later turn. The Gods must be face up on the field to be sent to the Graveyard during the End Phase.
EDIT: This protection does not completely work. After experimenting with it, there does not seem to be a loophole in the Rulings. Obelisk and Slifer will send themselves to the Graveyard on the turn they are flipped summoned or flipped up by an attack. So there are two ways I see of preventing this. 1) Use Skill Drain, but this is danagerous as if Skill Drain is destroyed, Slifer and Obelisk will be sent to the Graveyard at the end of that turn. It also kind of defeats the purpose of Summoning Slifer. 2) Continually reset the card. This is tedious, but does work. The problem is that you would have to continually recycle your Book of Moon (which will not work on Obelisk as it targets) or any other effect that flips monsters facedown. I'll keep working on it, but for now, if you're going to Special Summon them, keep them facedown until you can push for game OR Xyz Summon with them.I'll let you know if I find a way to permanently break this effect.

The Winged Dragon of Ra- Sphere Mode Rulings

-          “Requires 3 Tributes from either side of the field to Normal Summon to that side of the field (cannot be Normal Set)”. This is a condition, not an effect so it cannot be Effect Veilered or Skill Drained. Also, even it was an effect, it does not target so you can use it to tribute your opponent’s difficult to destroy monsters.
-          “then shift control to this card's owner during the End Phase of the next turn”.  This is also a condition but it can only be activated if this card is still on the field. Your opponent can tribute this card for a Tribute Summon. If this card is sent to the Graveyard (or destroyed by a card effect) it is not returned to you during the End Phase.
-          “Cannot attack. Your opponent cannot target this card for attacks or by card effects”. This is an effect can be Effect Veilered or Skill Drained. If summoned to your opponent’s field, they can tribute it for a Tribute/Synchro/Xyz Summon. This card can be destroyed by non-Targeting effects, such as Raigeki.
-          “You can Tribute this card; Special Summon 1 "The Winged Dragon of Ra" from your hand or Deck, ignoring its Summoning conditions, and if you do, its ATK and DEF become 4000”. This is not an effect but is actually a Summoning Condition for The Winged Dragon of Ra and therefore cannot be negated with Effect Veiler or Skill Drain. Be sure that your opponent does not have the God Cards in their deck or hand before summoning this card to their side of the field as they can tribute this card to summon their own 4000 ATK/DEF Ra before you regain control of Sphere Mode. Additionally, if you Normal Summon this card to your side of the field, you can tribute it immediately to summon your Ra with 4000 ATK/DEF.
EDIT: It's not a Summoning Condition, but I have not seen it successfully negated. Skill Drain could, but it would have to activated before Sphere Mode's effect is activated as Skill Drain won't negate effects that activate off the field. Effect Veiler won't negate it either as Sphere Mode has already left the field so there will be nothing to target.

The Winged Dragon of Ra Rulings.

-          “Cannot be Special Summoned”. This is a condition and only The Winged Dragon of Ra- Sphere Mode can bypass this condition (though more cards may be released that may be able to bypass this condition).
-          “Requires 3 Tributes to Normal Summon (cannot be Normal Set)”. This is a condition and cannot be negated through Effect Veiler or Skill Drain.
-          “When this card is Normal Summoned: You can pay Life Points so that you only have 100 left; this card gains ATK and DEF equal to the amount of Life Points paid”. This is an effect and can be negated by Effect Veiler or Skill Drain. If the effect is successfully negated, then this card’s ATK/DEF become 0. Also the effect is optional in two ways. You do not need to pay any Life Points if you don’t wish too (though, why wouldn’t you? It’s a bit point less having a 0 ATK monster on the field). You also do not need to pay all your Life Points bar 100 of them. You can pay any amount you want, be it 100 Life Points or 10 000 Life Points, as long as you have at least 100 Life Points left. If you activate this effect, you must activate it immediately after you summon this card. This effect starts a Chain and is always Chain Link 1.
-          “You can pay 1000 Life Points, then target 1 monster on the field; destroy that target”.  This is an effect and can be negated by Effect Veiler or Skill Drain. The effect is optional. The effect starts a Chain and is always Chain Link 1. Paying 1000 Life Points is a cost. If you do not have 1000 Life Points, you cannot activate this effect.

Obelisk the Tormentor Rulings

-          “Requires 3 Tributes to Normal Summon (cannot be Normal Set)”. This is a condition and cannot be negated with Effect Veiler or Skill Drain.
-          “Cannot be targeted by Spells, Traps, or card effects”. This is an effect and can be negated by Skill Drain (not by Effect Veiler because Effect Veiler targets). This card be affected by cards and effects that don’t target and it can be destroyed by cards and effects that don’t target, such as Raigeki, Dark Hole, Mirror Force, etc…
-          “You can Tribute 2 monsters; destroy all monsters your opponent controls. This card cannot declare an attack the turn this effect is activated”. This is an effect and can be negated. Tributing two monsters is a cost to activate this effect and Obelisk can tribute himself as part of the cost. This effect does not target. This effect starts a Chain and is always Chain Link 1.

Slifer the Sky Dragon Rulings

-          “Requires 3 Tributes to Normal Summon (cannot be Normal Set)”. This is a condition and cannot be negated by Effect Veiler or Skill Drain.
-          “This card gains 1000 ATK and DEF for each card in your hand”. This is an effect and can be negated. If it is successfully negated, Slifer’s ATK and DEF become 0. Normally, the ATK and DEF values change according to the number of cards in the controller’s hand. However, if these values are changed by the effect of another monster (including the effect of your opponent’s Slifer the Sky Dragon), an Equip Spell card or a Field Spell, then Slifer’s ATK and DEF will stay at this new value even if the number of cards in the controller’s hand changes (this can be a useful tactic to use against Slifer the Sky Dragon). This effect is activated immediately and does not start a chain (so Effect Veiler cannot negate this effect). If Slifer is attacked while it is facedown, its DEF is treated as 0 (flipping Slifer facedown is useful way to reset this effect if it has been altered by a monster effect or an Equip Spell card, as when it returns to a face up position, it will no longer be affected by those effects).
-          “When a monster(s) is Normal or Special Summoned to your opponent's side of the field in face-up Attack Position: That monster(s) loses 2000 ATK, then if its ATK has been reduced to 0 as a result, destroy it”. This is an effect and can be negated by Effect Veiler or Skill Drain. This effect starts a Chain but is not always Chain Link 1. For example, if you control two copies of Slifer the Sky Dragon, one Slifer will have its effect activated at Chain Link 1 and the other Slifer’s effect will activate at Chain Link 2. This effect does not target. If the summoned monster had 0 ATK to begin with, it will not be destroyed by Slifer’s effect because it is impossible for the ATK reduction to occur. Slifer must already be on the field for this effect to activate. If it summoned simultaneously with your opponent’s monsters, Slifer’s effect will not activate because it was not already on the field when your opponent’s monster(s) were summoned. This effect can be activated multiple times per turn. If your opponent Pendulum Summons, each of their Pendulum Summoned Monsters will have their ATK reduced by 2000 points and destroyed if they have 0 ATK as a result. The monsters must be Normal or Special Summoned for Slifer’s effect to activate. If the monster is Flip Summoned, Slifer’s effect will not activate.

I hope that clears up the rulings for a lot of you. There are more situation specific rulings, but I’ve tried to keep it general rulings here. A Google search should turn up situational rulings if you need them.

62 comments:

  1. Everywhere I have checked it says that you have to pay until you have 100 left so basically it's pay all or nothing
    You are wrong on this ruling or you need to show where you got that information that only you seem to have obtained

    Just ending misinformation

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    1. Yes, you are right. I got that completely wrong

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    2. Rad effect says up to 100 left its very optional

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  2. Is this site actually legit need to know after the turn a god card is summoned like slifer and two turns after slifer attacks a defense position monster and trap card draining sheild is activated will it work

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    1. Good question. In the case of Slifer and Ra it comes down to what else is on the field. If "Mound of the Bound Creator" is face up on the field, then cards that target like "Draining Shield" cannot be activated against them because Mound prevents them from being targeted. In the case of "Obelisk", it can't be targeted anyway.

      There is slight translation error in the card text. “When Normal Summoned, cards and effects cannot be activated”. I mentioned this in the post, but I'll say it again. The text should read “When Normal Summoned, cards and effects cannot be activated in response” or similar. What this means is that cards like Bottomless that activate when a Monster is summoned cannot be activated in response to the summoning of a God. After that point, cards and effects can be activated normally.

      Big Dub

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    2. why can you not use the gods cards in a real duel in yugioh

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  4. How about this? It occurred to me when I was doing a group duel with friends. I have 3 monsters on the field and a "Escalation of the Monarchs" face up.My
    friend activates "Dark Hole." I was thinking of chaining with "Escalation's" effect and summon a god card from my hand. Thinking that the summon would negate "Dark Hole." I chose not to do it because I assumed that the summon would be completed with out the "Dark Hole" activating right after the summon to get it negated. Would it have worked or did I make the right call of not summoning a god card just for it to be obliterated? Oh, and I still won in the end.

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    1. Unless Mound of the Bound Creator was active as well, you made the right call.

      The reason being is that Summoning a God as part of a Chain doesn't negate the rest of the chain, because no new effects are being activated.

      BigDub

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  6. can someone use change of heart on obelisk?

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    1. No. Change of Heart targets and Obelisk cannot be targeted

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  7. You are wrong on slifer the sky dragon working on a normal summoned slifer the sky dragon. If Slifer the sky dragon his normal summoned in front of an opponent's slifer the sky, the opponent's slifer the sky dragon will not activated, for the same reason that sangan does not activated when you used it as a tribute to summoned a Egyptian god card, the exception his if Slifer the sky dragon his normal summoned as chain link 2 because of ultimate offering, your opponent's slifer the sky dragon will activated after chain link 1 resolve, the same for sagan if he was tribute within the first chain.

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    1. Thank you for your comment, but you may be a bit confused. I didn't mention anything about Slifer affecting Slifer. But I will work through your example.

      You said, "If Slifer the sky dragon his normal summoned in front of an opponent's slifer the sky, the opponent's slifer the sky dragon will not activated, for the same reason that sangan does not activated"

      Slifer's ATK reduction effect will almost always activate if a monster is summoned in Attack Position because it is a mandatory effect. It must activate. The only circumstance in which the effect will not activate is if Slifer and one or more of your opponent's Monsters are summoned simultaneously, because Slifer is not considered to have been on the field at the time of the Summon

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  8. You are wrong on negating the special summoned of obelisk, and/or slifer, it his not their effect preventing this, it his the rules preventing this, since you can't negated a special summoned if it comes from an effect that start a chain, the exception to this rules his if the resolution of the effect mimic the inherent summoned of that monster card. All Egyptian god card you can negated their flip summoned

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    1. I'm not entirely sure what you are saying here. I'm guessing English is not your first language, which is ok. What I gather you're saying is that a Special Summon of either Slifer or Obelisk cannot be negated.

      The Special Summon can be negated. The Normal Summon cannot be negated. I hope that's a little clearer for you now.

      Big Dub

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  9. Can I use change of heart on slider?

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    1. Slifer's text doesn't say it can't be targeted, so as long as Mound of the Bound Creator (or some other card that prevents Slifer being targeted) isn't active, yes you can.

      Big Dub

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  10. If mound of the bound creator is active...let's say I have any of the god cards out, what does it actually protect you from? Mirror force?..dark holes? Monsters that effects state "destroy a opponents monster"? Does it really make them invincible?

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    1. Mound of the Bound Creator makes the Gods (or any other Level 10 or higher Monster) immune to targeting and effect destruction. They can however be destroyed by battle or removed (as long as it's not being targeted) by non-targeting removal. Here's some examples of what will and won't affect a God Card under the protection of Mound of the Bound Creator.

      Will affect:

      -Storming Mirror Force: Doesn't target or destroy
      -Quaking Mirror Force: Doesn't target or destroy
      -Kaijus: Don't target or destroy

      Won't affect:

      -Raigeki/Dark Hole: Doesn't target but does destroy
      -Castel- Does target but doesn't destroy
      -Mirror Force- Doesn't target but does destroy

      I hope that helps, and of course they can be destroyed by battle, with or without Mound of the Bound Creator.

      Big Dub

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  11. What about "The Winged Dragon of Ra - Sphere Mode"? Can you explain those card rulings? And also, are there any secret rules about them that isn't written on the card?

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    1. Dang typo, it was "Immortal Phenix" not Sphere mode. sry about that.

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  12. I had to do some research on this as I haven't used Immortal Phoenix at all, because its summoning condition is very difficult to pull off successfully.

    As far as I can tell, there are NO secret rulings. As long as you have Ra on board and Phoenix in Grave, if Ra goes to the Graveyard by any means, you can activate the effect of Phoenix.

    Sphere Mode can also be summoned in any position you wish by this effect, though it doesn't really matter because your opponent can't attack it anyway.

    If I find anything else, I'll comment again.

    Big Dub

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  13. P.S. When I say "in any position" I mean either Attack or Defence position. You can't set Sphere Mode by this effect.

    Big Dub

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    1. Ok thx. And the same for any future info. 👍🏻

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    2. Oh and I'm also wondering if you have any other monster card explanations?

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  14. Based on what you said, I'd assume Slifer's attack reduction effect would activate in this case, but say I had Slifer on the field and my opponent summons Obelisk. Now Obelisk would still be reduced by 2000 because Slifer is targeting the field rather than Obelisk itself right?

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    1. Yes. Slifer's effect does not target the monster so, even if Mound is active, Obelisk will still lose 2000 ATK.

      Big Dub

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  15. if i use to attack obelisk and my opponent activates magic cylinder, will it negate the attack of obelisk and still deduct my lifepoints?

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    1. Magic Cylinder targets. Since Obelisk cannot be targeted, Cylinder cannot be activated

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  17. I have a card called Destiny Hero Plasma, and it says it can negate effects of face up monsters while your opponent controls them. Let's say my opponent has Slifer on the field and when I summon Plasma, Slifer's effect (that lowers attack points by 2000 and destroys monsters when they are Normal/Special Summoned) activates. Is that effect negated by Plasma, or does Slifer's effect activate first and Plasma's "misses the timing"?

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    1. Ok. I'm not 100% certain on this, but this is what I believe happens.

      Both effects are mandatory, but Plasma's doesn't start a chain and so is applied the moment it is successfully summoned. Slifer's effect does not activate as it being negated when the activation window is open.

      I'm not 100% certain though

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  18. Hi, would like clarify regarding the special summon rules.

    "During the End Phase, if this card was Special Summoned, send it to the Graveyard"

    So does the card get send to the graveyard if you special summon from your hand or deck or graveyard? or only when you special summoned from the graveyard, then it will be send to the graveyard?

    I am asking this in response to episode 221 of the first series Season 5 where Atem Special Summoned Silfer the sky dragon from his hand using the effect of Summoning Clock trap card and not getting the card sent to the graveyard.

    Please enlighten me that this is just an anime errors.

    Thanks.

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    1. Episode 221 was likely an anime error. Slifer should've ben sent to the Graveyard.

      Additionally, the card is sent to the Graveyard if it is Special Summoned, regardless of where it was summoned from.

      Sorry about the late response
      Big Dub

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  19. Ome thing to mention, the effect of Slifer second mouth wouldn't work in Obelisk, Ra or other Slifer.

    His secomd mouth is an effect that activates when monters are summoned. Egyptian Gods has immunity to effects activated during their summoning.

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    1. That is true, though only when Normal Summoned. If they were Special Summoned, Slifer's effect would be applied normally.

      Big Dub

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    2. Is i use DDD Contract Change first effect
      Banish 1 DDD Monster from your graveyard, and if you do , the attacking monster loses ATK equal to the banished monsters ATK

      That work in Slifer because my friend say no because Slifer effect bring he back to 4000 because he has 4 card in he hand .

      Just in case tha card can be active when a monster declared attack
      And he attack whit Slifer

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    3. An interesting question. I'm not 100% sure. Slifer's effect is continuous. I would say your friend is correct. Contract Change will bring Slifer's ATK down, but then Slifer's effect will restore it to, in this case, 4000.

      Big Dub

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  20. Can Slifer and Winged Dragon of Ra be targeted by any spells and traps?

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    1. Yes they can, provided that Mound of the Bound Creator is not active.

      Big Dub

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    2. What would you say is the easiest way to destroy ra? Also when you special summon Ra with sphere mode are you allowed to pay life points and also pay 1000 life points to destory a monster on the field?

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    3. Nice questions Justin.

      I'll answer the simplest one first. When Ra is summoned off Sphere Mode, you don't pay Life Points to increase Ra's ATK. This is because you only pay Life Points to increase Ra's ATK when you Normal Summon Ra. Since Ra is Special Summoned, the trigger for this effect is never met, so Ra's ATK becomes 4000 by the effect of Sphere Mode. You can also activate the effect of Ra where you pay 1000 Life Points to destroy a Monster on the field, providing you have the Life Points to do so, when you summon Ra off of Sphere Mode's effect.

      The more difficult question is how to destroy Ra, because it really depends on the situation. The easiest way is Kaiju's. If we exclude Kaiju's though, it then becomes a question of whether or not Mound of the Bound Creator is active.

      If Mound of the Bound Creator is not active, then any form of removal will destroy (or at least remove) Ra. If it is active, then you have two options. 1) Remove Mound, or 2) destroy Ra by battle.

      I hope that helped.

      Big Dub

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    4. It helped alot thanks. Just to clarify, both Ra and SLifer canbe targeted by traps and spells except for obelisk, correct?

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    1. Aden, I wanted to know if you can please explain the Blue Eyes Chaos Max Dragon.

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    2. Sure. Any specific part or just the card in general?

      Big Dub

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    3. The card in general and also it's effect, cannot be destroyed or targeted.

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  22. Why do Obelisk and slifer send themselves to the graveyard after one turn if they are special summoned?

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  23. Can you have more than one slifer on your deck?

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  24. I'm lost... all of you confused me. Now i dont know how to use my own god cards .

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  25. It's a little confusing, stating that the card has a redundant and incomplete phrase on the card. Direct translation from the
    The card states each clause independently, looking at the Japanese card can clarify it a little, as that on is numbered.
    The Japanese translation, "If you normally summon this card, you have to release and summon three of them. ①: Summon of this card is not invalidated. ②: When this card is summoned successfully, the effects of magic, trap, monster can not be activated. ③: Increase the ATK and DEF of this card by the number of your hand × 1000. ④: Activate when an opponent's monster succeeds in summoning or special summoning in attack display. Damage that monster's attack power by 2000, and when it gets 0, destroy that monster. ⑤: If this card is Special Summoned, activate to End Phase. Send this card to the Graveyard."
    It's more logical to argue that a "god card", would have a ridiculous ability, more so than stating that it's a printing mistake. Regardless, it becomes a mute point when you're only suppose to use what the card says on it in a duel.
    Rejected by logic or rejected by omission, it's really the same in the end.

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  26. I really think the current explanation of "Once per turn, during the End Phase, if this card was Special Summoned: Send it to the Graveyard." is incorrect. From what I understand, the card effect "The Shallow Grave" special summons the God cards face-down from the graveyard. When the card gets flip face up either by battle or flip summoning, it will be send to the graveyard at the End Phase because it was still special summoned. But if you say special summon a God card, Slifer for instance, face up then have a card like Book of Moon to flip it face-down, the card will experience a "info lost" situation. Through the "info lost" it would lose card information like how it was summoned previously, what monsters were used to tribute summon this card, any permeant or lingering card effects, etc.

    So from this the only loophole I can think of through a Special Summon and keeping the God cards, Slifer and Obliesk, on the field is: Special Summon them face up, use a card effect to flip them facedown, and either some how use another card effect to flip them face up again like World Legacy Pawns. Remember the "lost info" is through the action of flipping a monster face-down not special summoning them face-down.

    Where I got my info: http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Face-down and from my experience of making rouge decks.

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  27. 1.To activate obelisks second effect do you need to tribute a monster? When I say tribute I mean tribute summon as in having two level 4 monsters on the field along with obelisk, and tribute summoning the two level 4 monsters for lets say blue eyes. or do I just trow away the two level 4 monsters.

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  28. 2. why does obelix affect say spell, trap, or card effect wouldn't they just put card effect referring to all spell, trap ,and monster effects? BTW yea obelik says card effect not monster effect.

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  29. I having disagreement with my friend he says card effect=monster effect only and tribute to activate effect = tribute summon. like kiba man to activate effect you must tribute him for lets say dark magician girl.

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  30. Solemn Warning is in response to the cost to summon, not that summoning itself.

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  31. I dont think its a misprint. i mean the card says what it says and the creators of it meant that. I think the people taking over the meta game not wanting op cards are the ones making that the rule just because for some reason everyone wants to hate on them.

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  32. I have a question me and my frien were dueling online we were using the new god structure decks and I used monster reborn on slifer the sky dragon and at the end of my turn it didn't go to the graveyard and I was wondering if its because of March of the monarchs being on the field

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